axe swinging warchanter

Something I have been toying with over the last day or two.

Purpose: To be able to solo and group efficently.

Dwarf for axe bonuses, barbarian for rage and martial proficiencies, rogue for skills and bard for the songs, i like the songs ;P

Code:

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Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(1 Barbarian / 1 Rogue / 18 Bard)
Hit Points: 308
Spell Points: 755

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 14
Will: 10

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Strength          16                16
Dexterity          12                12
Constitution      16                18
Intelligence      10                10
Wisdom              8                8
Charisma          14                20

              Starting      Feat/Enhancement
            Base Skills  Modified Skills
Skills      (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Balance            4              10
Bluff              2              5
Concentration      3              10
Diplomacy          2              5
Disable Device    4              10
Haggle            6              22
Heal              -1            -1
Hide              1              1
Intimidate        2              9
Jump              7              10
Listen            -1            0
Move Silently      1              1
Open Lock          5              11
Perform            n/a            28
Repair            0              0
Search            4              16
Spot              3              3
Swim              3              3
Tumble            2              2
Use Magic Device  6              28
 
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
 
Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
 
Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Goblinoid Hatred I
 
Level 4 (Bard)
 
Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Goblinoid Hatred II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
 
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
 
Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
 
Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
 
Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
 
Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
 
Level 11 (Bard)
 
Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
EEnhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
 
Level 13 (Bard)
 
Level 14 (Bard)
 
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
 
Level 16 (Bard)
 
Level 17 (Bard)
 
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening I
 
Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
 
Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I

Feats could probably taken earlier/later to get the warcharnter PrE earlier on, in no way are they set in stone for the order and the enhcanments can be changed up quite a bit probably. Looking for some feedback on the build as a whole though.

Looks like a fairly solid concept. I'm going to tackle this in two stages. The first is things I would look at with the build as it is. The second will be things that you may want to consider changing about the build.

I'm not sold on all of the enhancements, though those are always an easy fix. I've always found both barbarians and bards to be ap starved though, so it's something you might want to look over. As an example, I'm not sure how much mileage you'll get out of enhancements like Goblinoid hatred and improved trap sense. Also, with only 1 level of barbarian, you will only have one use of rage that lasts about 30 seconds (maybe a tad longer at higher levels when you pump up con). I would definitely want extend and/or extra rage on this build.

I'm curious about spell focus: evocation and Gsf:E on this build. Those would be a given on a sorc, evocation AM (what other kind is there lol), or an evoker fvs. I'm not sure you'll get much out of it on a bard, particularly a warchanter. I'd be iffy with that focus on a spellsinger with limited offensive spells. And on a chanter, your blue bar will shorter than the special bus. If you're dead set on metas I'd be more inclined to take SF:Enchantment to try to get more discos and holds to land, but even then it's meh. I imagine this build is going to be feat starved, and I really don't think you can afford to take any feat you don't absolutely need.

Finally, to wrap up the first section, I see you didn't take the THF line. Now, that's ok, but it's something you may want to reconsider, especially if you're not going to twitch. THF is already behind TWF in dps as it is (except on a barb), and losing those big glancing blows is a huge hit.

That seems like a good segue into the second section. Let's talk about different ways to do the build. I really do recommend TWF for dps. I understand why you went THF. It's much less stressful on your ability points, and unlike TWF, doesn't absolutely REQUIRE the feat line. However, there is a fairly substantial dps difference here. Bards are already behind in dps as it is. Just something to think about.

I'm not sold on 18/1/1. You may want to look into a 16/2/2 or 15/3/2 build (Bard/rogue/fighter). If you're absolutely sold on barb, I recommend maybe going 15bard/4fighter/1barb or 16bard/3rog/1barb. The truth of the matter is the difference between 15 levels of bard and 18 levels of bard is...minimal. Your IC song is the same, and you only lose IH and Mass suggestion...both of which are meh. (I mean, you do already have GH on, right??). That leaves only a few sp difference, and that is minimal as well, since you're a chanter. What you'll get from a bit of a deeper splash will greatly improve your dps. Fighter levels will not only improve your BAB and HP, but grant you bonus feats, which you could really use. More rogue levels will grant you better sneak damage.

The idea behind 16/2/2 (instead of 20 bard) is that you get 1d6+3 sneak attack, evasion, two feats, +1 strength and 18 hp in exchange for -1 to IC and a little less sp. I'll make that trade any day. In your case, it's even better since you already gave up that 1 to IC. A 15/3/2 trades 6th level spells (how well will your DC and spell pen be anyway?) in exchange for a further increase in dps.

I really don't know if you'll like having that single barb level. Tbh, your rage is really going to suck. You'd have to burn ap on it to even get use out of it, and even then it will be iffy. I truly feel you'd get a lot more from fighter or rogue levels rather than the barb level. Another thing to note is that fighter is probably the least ap-starved class. This would let you expend more of your ap on the bard side.

Anyway, it's a fun idea no matter what, and everything I said was just meant as food for thought. The absolute most important thing is to play what you'll have the most fun with. Hope this helps. amd good luck.

Thanks, what took so long ;P

The barb level is primarily to get the GA proficiency faster and a side benefit is the rage for use in oh crap situations and boss end fights to add just a little bit to the dps. Don't want it to last to long due to not being able to cast while raged, so it is situational at best to use. So it could be swapped out for fighter with not to much of an issue.

The spell pen feats, actually meant to take enchantment for the holds and disco /facepalm, but they could also be swapped out for the THF line to increase the dps, and would add more dps to the build as a whole than the rage would. I think if taking the fighter level then should be able to get both sets of feats though.

Will play around with it more with a 16/2/2 as you suggested though to see where it winds up.

Yeah, there are lots of ways to go. Like I say, nobody else but you is going to play him, so he should be built exactly how you want him. It really is just a matter of how important maximizing your dps is.

On the note of 16/2/2 (too bad there's an alignment restriction against bard/monk), the 2 rogue levels give evasion, a bit of sneak, and of course the skills. None of those are really essential, and are a matter of taste. If it comes down to it, you could always go with more fighter levels if you need the extra feats. Even a 15/4/1 would be possible. Like I said, lots of ways to go, and I'd just play around with it and see what you like. You can always LR if you need to.

Also, it should be mentioned, if I'm not mistaken you don't spend much time at 20, right? I didn't think you were one of those that hung out and did endgame. If I'm correct, it matters even less. You'd probably shroud for some gs and then TR.

hmmm seems that to get the full thf line a STR of 17 is required, so that would put me a lower CHA at the end. not exactly sure how this would affect anything as I would have to spend a level up point into it, if going fighter route since the STR enhancement is available to lvl 2 fighter and that's where I was gonna pick up the THF feats at. Or I could just nom a tome, which I was trying to avoid in this build.

Oh, that was something I totally missed. You seem to have really high charisma for a warchanter. I would think you'd want to drop charisma and get max strength.